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Welcome DeVon Cooper

Herndon

Starter
Well, if he's going to run something like Thibodeau's defense (he alluded to studying it in one interview), there's going to be a lot of pressure placed on the guards to be able to keep their man from going down the middle and to channel them to the sides and/or into a big for a contested jump shot. The big's job would be to stick to the roller on high ball screens so the guard with the ball has no easy outlet pass and has to make a play on their own. So whoever is guarding out there on the perimeter better be able to stay in front of their man. Right now, that's Polite over any of the other potential PGs.
Where did you read that? if he's going to be running thibs' defense that's super interesting
 

Herndon

Starter
mentioned in a few interviews that the only reason why he signed a contract with the Bulls before retiring was to be able to learn from Thibs.
... Huh. Thank you for that. I cannot foresee a world in which heartwell plays a team that's going to emphasize defense in the style of Tom thibodeau. Guards really really have to fight pick and rolls in that system because the big is not going to be hedging and helping a ton. Hartwell is either going to have to stop getting erased on screens or he's not going to play.

It also makes the fit of oduro a little bit more questionable, but explains the two long guard/wing transfers, if we really are going to be doing that whole "Force the ball to the baseline, overload one side of the floor, and use length to discourage skip passes" thing
 

sleeperpick

Hall of Famer
... Huh. Thank you for that. I cannot foresee a world in which heartwell plays a team that's going to emphasize defense in the style of Tom thibodeau. Guards really really have to fight pick and rolls in that system because the big is not going to be hedging and helping a ton. Hartwell is either going to have to stop getting erased on screens or he's not going to play.

It also makes the fit of oduro a little bit more questionable, but explains the two long guard/wing transfers, if we really are going to be doing that whole "Force the ball to the baseline, overload one side of the floor, and use length to discourage skip passes" thing
I don’t think you fully understand the coaching philosophy of thibs to be honest. Can’t play any defensive philosophy with Hartwell out there agreed but nothing about Oduro makes this bee system questionable lol
 

Herndon

Starter
t think you fully understand the coaching philosophy of thibs to be honest. Can’t play any defensive philosophy with Hartwell out there agreed but nothing about Oduro makes this bee system questionable lol
Fully agreed! My understanding of thibs' defense goes as deep as watching a couple of "breaking down Tom thibodeau defense" videos 5 years ago or so.

My understanding has been that they forced the ball to one side of the floor, and then overload that side of the floor to keep it stuck there to prevent the ball rotating back to the other side and then Force the ball down the baseline to a shot blocker.

But I admit, I'm a football coach, not a basketball coach and that's as far as I understand it.

If you care to do a breakdown of how his system fits our players, I'd eat it up.
 

sleeperpick

Hall of Famer
Fully agreed! My understanding of thibs' defense goes as deep as watching a couple of "breaking down Tom thibodeau defense" videos 5 years ago or so.

My understanding has been that they forced the ball to one side of the floor, and then overload that side of the floor to keep it stuck there to prevent the ball rotating back to the other side and then Force the ball down the baseline to a shot blocker.

But I admit, I'm a football coach, not a basketball coach and that's as far as I understand it.

If you care to do a breakdown of how his system fits our players, I'd eat it up.
biggest part of Thibs defense is the perimeter defender not allowing a screen to take place by jumping it and making the ball handler go to their weak side. The defender then swallows the middle stopping both the roll and the ball handler from taking an easy layup. It forces the ballhandler to take a mid range jumper or reset completely when done correctly. (taking a mid range is the worst shot in basketball per many new school coaches that have had great success). Other than the two defenders involved in the play (guy defending dribbler and guy defending screener) the other defenders are not involved in the play (they stay outside on the spot up shooters making the dribbler really only have one option to success (taking his man one on one and settling for a bad shot.

I think Josh isn't a good defender at all, but this style of defense should actually favor him than our ole defense to one on one with the him downlow against either a big or the guard who easily beat our shitty guards perimeter d. Would love to see KE go get a way more athletic big for this style, but Josh should actually look more proficient on defense under this system. The most important part of this scheme is having one-two guards that can actually stay somewhat in front of their men (something that Hartwell, XJ and Polite proved mostly incapable of).
 

Herndon

Starter
biggest part of Thibs defense is the perimeter defender not allowing a screen to take place by jumping it and making the ball handler go to their weak side. The defender then swallows the middle stopping both the roll and the ball handler from taking an easy layup. It forces the ballhandler to take a mid range jumper or reset completely when done correctly. (taking a mid range is the worst shot in basketball per many new school coaches that have had great success). Other than the two defenders involved in the play (guy defending dribbler and guy defending screener) the other defenders are not involved in the play (they stay outside on the spot up shooters making the dribbler really only have one option to success (taking his man one on one and settling for a bad shot.

I think Josh isn't a good defender at all, but this style of defense should actually favor him than our ole defense to one on one with the him downlow against either a big or the guard who easily beat our shitty guards perimeter d. Would love to see KE go get a way more athletic big for this style, but Josh should actually look more proficient on defense under this system. The most important part of this scheme is having one-two guards that can actually stay somewhat in front of their men (something that Hartwell, XJ and Polite proved mostly incapable of).
Huh.

That's....not how I've seen it described in the past.

I've seen it drawn up almost as a close cousin to a packline, where the backside of the defense sags way down almost into like a zone look to help prevent the dribble drive. The other thing I've seen multiple times is the idea that the guard is going to ice the F out of the screen, which puts the impetus on the big to be able to handle the guard coming downhill at him and use the baseline as a help defender.

Is that just wrong? I know you coach, so I'm not saying you're wrong, but I've seen it drawn up that way a couple times, and I'm curious.
 
OP
G

GMUgemini

Hall of Famer
Huh.

That's....not how I've seen it described in the past.

I've seen it drawn up almost as a close cousin to a packline, where the backside of the defense sags way down almost into like a zone look to help prevent the dribble drive. The other thing I've seen multiple times is the idea that the guard is going to ice the F out of the screen, which puts the impetus on the big to be able to handle the guard coming downhill at him and use the baseline as a help defender.

Is that just wrong? I know you coach, so I'm not saying you're wrong, but I've seen it drawn up that way a couple times, and I'm curious.

He changed up his defense a couple of years ago when opposing offenses were setting the screens so high that midrange jumpers became 3s.
 

JPgmuswim

Starter
Just let it go, man, let it go ...
I hear you. Wasn’t a jab at DP or Reuter, just making the point that it’s coach speak before a minute of game is played.

And I really do hope he’s one of the best guards in America. It’ll be great to have that in the A-10 finally.
 

Pikapppatri8

Hall of Famer
⭐️ Donor ⭐️
I hear you. Wasn’t a jab at DP or Reuter, just making the point that it’s coach speak before a minute of game is played.

And I really do hope he’s one of the best guards in America. It’ll be great to have that in the A-10 finally.
Solid point and agree. What is more important to me is seeing the construction of this roster in the aggregate. It’s well put together and will be more balanced than before. I would argue Cooper has a good chance of being one of the best guards in the country on this team.
 

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