Game 22: GMU (12-9 / 4-4) vs St. Joe’s (9-11 / 3-5) on Sunday, January 29, at Noon.

[tblack33]

I'm fine giving KE 4 or even 5 years. I really wanna see him turn us into Gonzaga of the East. I think he can score some big local recruits.

But he is gonna have to surround himself with great assistants. Not sure he has that dept set yet.

Haven’t watched the game yet so I’ll hold off on commenting until I do, but overall I think this is right. Kim needs to surround himself with some assistants to plug some of his weaknesses. I vote whichever assistant taught our players to face up box out moves on to other opportunities this offseason.

Some of us said it in the off-season, but without a top 4 PG you’ll never sniff top 4 in this league. Our guards are bottom 3rd and it’s showing. If that need isn’t filled this off-season then I really don’t know what to say. You can’t look at what we’ve seen this year and say that we’ll be ready to compete with the expected development of what we have on the roster.

 

[Verdad]

It’s not as black and white as you make it out to be. Dave and Kim both have their strengths and weaknesses. I think Paulsen hit his peak as a coach while English has a higher ceiling.

There is a 20-year gap in coaching experience, so the gray area lies in the learning curve — which is why I think our current coach deserves a little more leash. I’m all for criticism of his roster management and coaching, but try to to remember Kim was 17 when we went to the Final 4. He’s a young buck in his first head coaching job learning on the job.

But then why is he being paid more than DP?

 

[gmutom]

But then why is he being paid more than DP?

Market value. Kim was a hot commodity as a rising assistant. We saw what Dave’s value was after he got fired.

 

[GSII]

Another thought is on ball defending. Ronnie can't do this at all. I don't care what the numbers say about his value on offense. Whatever the opponent wants to do, they do it easily against us. Ace Baldwin beat up 3 of our guys by himself to force a 10 sec call.

 

[Earl the Squirrel]

While not excusing what we have seen---we have to remember the difference between English and Paulsen.

Paulsen came in with a head coaching resume and a reasonably successful one at that. So one could expect with some slight changes that he just needed to execute his plan and be okay.

English was an assistant. This is first head coach gig---in the A10. Not the MEAC. Not the CAA. And its a long way from fantastic assistant to head coach in a league like this. I do think he definitely gets some extra leash on this.

However---while I have liked what he has been able to bring recruiting wise.....it may be time for him to have some introspection on what he needs to do to as HC. Because it seems there's a lot of basic team concepts not being addressed or corrected.

Another thought is on ball defending. Ronnie can't do this at all. I don't care what the numbers say about his value on offense. Whatever the opponent wants to do, they do it easily against us. Ace Baldwin beat up 3 of our guys by himself to force a 10 sec call.

Yeah, but he's clearly not healthy. Even on one leg he's the straw that stirs the drink. Not this game, but for most of the season. I'm not referring to his D but his contribution on offense, which cannot be underestimated. We're lost without Ronnie and KE know this.

It'll be another year or two or so before we get a handle on KE and that's fair. I like the class coming in, but let's see.

 

[Patriotsince81]

I think for a lot of people the issue is that KE overpromised and under delivered. I get it he had to get people in the stands and create student interest. After all he just got a major contract . But the fact is that KE is a great orator with smooth style, and very likeable. But for a lot of us it's been a long time since they raised that banner at EBA and we have longed for something better that Hewitt and Paulson. We want wins and post season games. So yea patience is all we have. But for me we must show major improvement next year. As they say patience can wear thin.

Nailed it! Your first sentence expresses my frustration perfectly. What do we want? Patience! When do we want it? Right now!

 

[GMU79]

Dave got 6 years and delivered almost none of what he sold us upon taking the job. Stop harping on coach speak and recognize Kim is 2/3 of the way through Year 2.

Let's not call it harping. Let's call it quoting.
Read hoops10 first sentence. And, even Pres. Washington pumped this guy...to the whole A10.
Am I saying he's toast? No. But so far...
I'm still on board, but as a fan it is fair to complain about coaches and players when they clearly "sip" right now.

 

[mkaufman1]

But Dave didn't promise the moon when he walked in the door. KE did.

Feel free to correct me but I don’t recall any quote where Kim promised the moon (national titles, undefeated seasons etc). He always said that we would have a program to be proud of, it’s our program, players will work hard and other coach speak.

There was one Instagram that supposedly he was talking about recruiting and his plan is to get mason super legit over the next few years. But other than that I don’t recall anything.

 

[GMU79]

Feel free to correct me but I don’t recall any quote where Kim promised the moon (national titles, undefeated seasons etc). He always said that we would have a program to be proud of, it’s our program, players will work hard and other coach speak.

There was one Instagram that supposedly he was talking about recruiting and his plan is to get mason super legit over the next few years. But other than that I don’t recall anything.

You must have been the only one who didn't take KE's comments as anything but promising success almost right off the bat, and Pres. W. sure called out the A10.
C'mon, people all over this board are complaining about KE, the players, and the results.
Every coach will tell you the only stat that counts, in the end, is not KenPom or whatever, but Ws and Ls. None of us expected us to be a .500 team a year and a half in. See Top 4 or Bust headline.

 

[mkaufman1]

You must have been the only one who didn't take KE's comments as anything but promising success almost right off the bat, and Pres. W. sure called out the A10.
C'mon, people all over this board are complaining about KE, the players, and the results.
Every coach will tell you the only stat that counts, in the end, is not KenPom or whatever, but Ws and Ls. None of us expected us to be a .500 team a year and a half in. See Top 4 or Bust headline.

Okay fair point. Dr Washington's comment about we have the right coach and soon the A10 will know it soon was a strong comment. I enjoyed it but yeah, I guess you could say we are yet to see that.

Maybe I should re-watch the presser again and see if I can pickup on the promised success off the bat. Its almost 2 years ago. Yeah, we're all complaining including myself. I expected big things this year and I probably will want to jump off a bridge if I read the comments that I made in August about 20 wins, NCAA bound etc. I look foolish and I probably need to temper expectations before thinking that again considering what we have and what we will have next year.

But I also realize I'm a sports fan, things happen and sometimes I just have to lower my expectations. I'm as tired of losing as everyone (I say it after every loss) but it doesn't mean I'm going to toss the coach out to pasture. Not saying you are doing that.

And yeah, recruiting better rated kids are good, rating better in NET/Kenpom is good, but we need to find a way to take those minor successes and translate them to better and more Wins than losses on the court.

 

[Patriotsince81]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yy8ZwCOyVc

 

[mkaufman1]

I re watched. I hear toughness, competitiveness, right way on defense. Things like that.

There is also a difference between a press conference and reality too. Coach took over a program that also hasn't been winning and needed some turnover.

And yes, most of the roster has turned over. Unfortunately some of the quick fix guys haven't panned out to the level we wanted. I got nothing else at this point.

 

[GMU79]

I re watched. I hear toughness, competitiveness, right way on defense. Things like that.

There is also a difference between a press conference and reality too. Coach took over a program that also hasn't been winning and needed some turnover.

And yes, most of the roster has turned over. Unfortunately some of the quick fix guys haven't panned out to the level we wanted. I got nothing else at this point.

Just to be clear, my rants here are just the emotional ravings of a frustrated, out of patience (almost) fan.
I believe KE has great potential, but somebody once said "there is no greater burden than a great potential." If he can live up to it, Mason will be flying high!
Fingers crossed.

 

[mkaufman1]

Just to be clear, my rants here are just the emotional ravings of a frustrated, out of patience (almost) fan.
I believe KE has great potential, but somebody once said "there is no greater burden than a great potential." If he can live up to it, Mason will be flying high!
Fingers crossed.

100% get it. But after thinking about it, I think we all need to have a little more patience with Kim, myself included.

 

[Dawgs99]

I'm sure this has already been said on this thread some where but I need to say it for my own mental health.....I'm tired of every team we play having better guards. I'm tired of every team we play having one dude that is just head and shoulders above anyone on our roster. St Joe's has 2 stud guards, St Louis has the best PG in the league, Bonnies have that St. Peters transfer who just gets buckets, GW has to 2 dudes that can straight ball in their back court, vcu has Baldwin, and on and on. Really disappointing. I like RP but we're never going to finish top 4 with him running the point. And don't get me started on Saquan who despite playing in the back court is a worse shooter than Malik Henry!

Very Surprised with CKE being a great guard himself that our back court is the weak link this year. I do really like DD and JF. I will reserve final judgement on Kim until the HS kids he's recruited here are playing the majority of the minutes. Remember, transfers are usually leaving their old school because of a lack of playing time.

 

[Masonfan3]

100% get it. But after thinking about it, I think we all need to have a little more patience with Kim, myself included.

While I would have normally agreed with you, the landscape of college athletics has changed and there is no longer room for patience. Do we fire a guy after year 2..hell no. However, the majority of our minutes are going to KE's guys, so if we don't show improvement next year then I'd say it's time to think about moving on. You don't have to look very far to see a program that has shown significant improvement under a first year coach in GW. Not to mention..just look at what Fordham is doing in year 1 under Urgo.

 

[mkaufman1]

While I would have normally agreed with you, the landscape of college athletics has changed and there is no longer room for patience. Do we fire a guy after year 2..hell no. However, the majority of our minutes are going to KE's guys, so if we don't show improvement next year then I'd say it's time to think about moving on. You don't have to look very far to see a program that has shown significant improvement under a first year coach in GW. Not to mention..just look at what Fordham is doing in year 1 under Urgo.

Fair point, I get it.

However, Caputo was also an assistant for 17 years. Urgo was also an assistant in some realm for 18 years.

English was an assistant for 6.

Yes, all first year coaches, but they are nowhere on the same plane. I'm not saying English deserves 10 years to figure it out, but I don't think thats a fair comparison.

 

[GMU79]

I'm sure this has already been said on this thread some where but I need to say it for my own mental health.....I'm tired of every team we play having better guards. I'm tired of every team we play having one dude that is just head and shoulders above anyone on our roster. St Joe's has 2 stud guards, St Louis has the best PG in the league, Bonnies have that St. Peters transfer who just gets buckets, GW has to 2 dudes that can straight ball in their back court, vcu has Baldwin, and on and on. Really disappointing. I like RP but we're never going to finish top 4 with him running the point. And don't get me started on Saquan who despite playing in the back court is a worse shooter than Malik Henry!

Very Surprised with CKE being a great guard himself that our back court is the weak link this year. I do really like DD and JF. I will reserve final judgement on Kim until the HS kids he's recruited here are playing the majority of the minutes. Remember, transfers are usually leaving their old school because of a lack of playing time.

I agree with everything you said. That last sentence really hit home.

 

[Patriotsince81]

I'm sure this has already been said on this thread some where but I need to say it for my own mental health.....I'm tired of every team we play having better guards. I'm tired of every team we play having one dude that is just head and shoulders above anyone on our roster. St Joe's has 2 stud guards, St Louis has the best PG in the league, Bonnies have that St. Peters transfer who just gets buckets, GW has to 2 dudes that can straight ball in their back court, vcu has Baldwin, and on and on. Really disappointing. I like RP but we're never going to finish top 4 with him running the point. And don't get me started on Saquan who despite playing in the back court is a worse shooter than Malik Henry!

Very Surprised with CKE being a great guard himself that our back court is the weak link this year. I do really like DD and JF. I will reserve final judgement on Kim until the HS kids he's recruited here are playing the majority of the minutes. Remember, transfers are usually leaving their old school because of a lack of playing time.

I really wish Dinkins and Fernandez would start the rest of the way out. I don't think we're going to experience a sudden turn around this year so what do we have to lose by doing so? Play Elvis some as well, let's see what he has and if he's going to be able to really contribute anything next year.

I hate the portal but understand it's here to stay. Anyone we get from the portal will have limitations or unrealistic expectations about their own abilities. Zack Edey and Yuri Collins aren't entering the portal to come to Mason.

 

[Masonfan3]

Fair point, I get it.

However, Caputo was also an assistant for 17 years. Urgo was also an assistant in some realm for 18 years.

English was an assistant for 6.

Yes, all first year coaches, but they are nowhere on the same plane. I'm not saying English deserves 10 years to figure it out, but I don't think thats a fair comparison.

Not sure I can agree with you on the "don't think thats a fair comparison" If that were the case, then you are admitting that we made the wrong decision in hiring CKE and we should have gone with a more "experienced" assistant coach in Caputo. Also don't forget that CKE played SG for a power conference team and also has experience playing (and learning) at the highest level. Either way...CKE and Caputo are different in many ways but they are on equal playing field as they are both first time HC's who are coaching in the same conference and same market.