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Discussion in 'George Mason Basketball' started by p8triotfan4life, Sep 2, 2017.
Interesting to listen to. Thanks for sharing.
Sophomore highlights for Jordan
Mason Men's Basketball
Second-straight year Jordan has made a November All-Tournament Team
Your 2020 DC Paradise Jam All-Tournament Team!
Grayson Murphy, @BelmontMBB
Nick Muszynski, @BelmontMBB
(MVP) Luke Smith, @BelmontMBB
Jordan Miller, @MasonMBB
Kenny Dye, @queensMBB
5:54 PM · Nov 28, 2020
So, I think it's maybe getting to the time where we have to start discussing Jordan Miller's career.
He's sneakily getting into that level where he's among the better players ever at Mason. For three years now he has just contributed a lot, in a lot of different ways, every damn night.
For me, he's already getting into that Cam Long/ Folarin Campbell/Sherrod Wright conversation (Which is to say, for me, he has already moved OUT of that Dre Smith/Raoul Heinen conversation)
(the Lamar Butler conversation is a different one, entirely, because so much of his success is tied up in the team's success that it's hard to compare)
Assuming ESPN is updated on scoring, he’s at 882 career points scored at Mason. He’ll need to double that next year to get into the level of the guys you are talking about for the most part. It’s not impossible, but he probably won’t be a top 10 scorer in Mason history. He’s been great for us this year, and is a very solid and efficient player, but I don’t hell be considered an all time great here at Mason.
As a once redshirt, to overnight starter, we can only expect average results. The 14th best player on a team becoming a starter nets out to average expectations right? His practice facilities and coaching are all average so his results should be average too. Right? According to your logic?
Raw career numbers are going to be a little deceptive, because of how short his junior year is going to end up being. He's going to end up losing 150 or 160 points. Considering he'll end up finishing this year around 900, and next year we can guess he'll finish with ~450 or so , that 150 or 160 points really is the difference in him creeping into the bottom of the top 10 (or really close).
I don't think he's in the ALL TIME GREAT category, but I think if we take COVID into account, he could be in that next tier (which is where I put Cam Long and Sherrod Wright), which means we should be appreciating him how.
**Edit: Actually, I'm not sure about the eligibility rules due to COVID, but if he ends up staying 2 more years (I genuinely don't even know if that's a possibility), he's going to be in the top 5 or so, and then this conversation changes a LOT.
Actually, I fully agree! He's been a VERY pleasant surprise. He has very much outperformed what I thought/expected he would, which is why it's so delightful to see him become that all around ass-kicker he is
Well if he wants to stay for two more full seasons he’ll have an opportunity to score another 930 points (15 ppg x 62 games).
Fair. For me personally I think he’ll stay in that tier below Sherod but be right around where I keep guys like Bryon Allen. Good, solid all around players, but ultimately not really talked about 2-3 years after he’s gone. A lot of that obviously has to do with team achievement too so maybe this train of thought changes for me if we win today.
I still don’t think we will see a lot of guys take advantage of the extra year of eligibility so I’m just going to assume none of our guys will use it until they say otherwise. School records will really be an unfair comparison point at that point if they do, no point in comparing what a guy did in 5 seasons vs 4.
Yeah, I hear all of that.
I see him in the Sherrod tier NOW, actually, and already above the Bryon Allen tier, but I'm not going to say you're wrong for seeing it that way. I recognize it's a "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" situation.
And, yeah, there's going to be a lot of schools out there whose alltime record books are going to be a little weird because of the Covid thing, and guys essentially getting 4 and 2/3 years. I wonder if it'll be the covid asterisk, and some guys will get overrated and others underrated.
To clarify, he's not there yet numbers wise, but in my "make all things equal, given equal circumstances and situations, who would you want on your team for a career", I'd absolutely already rather have Jordan Miller day one of his freshman year than Bryon Allen, and it's a tough decision with Sherrod Wright and Cam Long and Miller.
That's why, despite his name not being all over the record books, Luke Hancock is my top wing. IMO, he's the best wing we've ever had at Mason on day one, and had he stayed, I think the conversation wouldn't really be that involved.
When I was in college, football and men's basketball players were ineligible to play on the varsity their freshmen season. They played on the freshmen team and 3 seasons on the varsity. I remember watching Penn State's freshmen football team play with Lydell Mitchell and Franco Harris in the backfield.
So, granted it's hard to extrapolate out what a full season would look like (given he'd be playing against some of the tougher defenses we missed out on), but he's only played 19 games so far this season. If you took his average and added a full season worth of games to it, he'd have scored another 200-205 points this year, which would put him at 1082-1087 going into this game, with a chance to have 1,100 points by the end of his junior season, which would put him in the top 30 all-time going into his senior season with a chance to score another 500-600 points, which would put him in the top 10 (possibly top 5) depending on how close to 600 he got.
Same thing with rebounds. He would be just outside the top 23 (they only counted to 23 on rebounds in the record book) with somewhere around 484 (given a full season at 6.1 rebounds a game) going into this game. If he went into his senior season at that number, given he had 168 his sophomore year, he could be top 15 in rebounds.
So, potential top 5 all-time scorer and top-15 all-time rebounder had he not had a COVID season.
I get it, though, Cam and Sherrod were more of the explosive type scorer and Miller is more of a glider (sometimes you wonder how he managed to score 19 points and grab 10 rebounds in a game).
I agree, Miller is one of those "The stat line might not show it, but he belongs in the conversation" type players. It's impossible to compare players across different teams... who played around them, what are their intangible positives and negatives and how did they impact the team, did they play a full season or was COVID or injury a factor, etc. etc. I have a soft spot for guys like Cam and Sherrod who played in an era in which I ENJOYED Mason ball a lot more, so am I letting that cloud my judgement? We could argue "which tier" he belongs in all day if we wanted to, but I hope everyone would agree he has been a net positive for the program by any measure.
Really good point. Its the same way we could look at guys like Marquise Moore and Jalen Jenkins, who also played in a not so enjoyable era but were fantastic 4 year players for Mason.
As for Miller, hes been great and what Mason needed. A 6'6 wing who can score and kills it on the glass.
I hope in the next 2 years he even gets better.
Not that it matters much either way, but Miller really only played a little more than half of his freshman season because he was redshirted for the entire OOC and then some.
His abbreviated freshman and junior seasons are equivalent to just a little more than one full season. Not like he’ll finish with an entire additional season’s worth of stats even if he stays for his final 2 years of eligibility.