Where Are They Now?

[A.-Siegfried]

I'm dead serious. Our record would be exactly the same, 5-3, with or without Jon Arledge. And there is nothing a 2 month stretch of basketball in spring of 2013 will do to convince me otherwise.

I said it before...if this team goes .500 and fans think Jon Arledge would have been the huge difference in winning 5 or 6 more games, you've watched a different player than I have over his career.

 

[patriot2000]

I'm dead serious. Our record would be exactly the same, 5-3, with or without Jon Arledge. And there is nothing a 2 month stretch of basketball in spring of 2013 will do to convince me otherwise.

I said it before...if this team goes .500 and fans think Jon Arledge would have been the huge difference in winning 5 or 6 more games, you've watched a different player than I have over his career.

The last bunch of games a guy played (as long as it's a fairly big sample size like 2 months) can be a much better indicator than his whole career. Players break out. They find their place in the scheme. They learn. On a larger scale, this is why the selection committee puts so much weight on a team's last 10 games. Trends are a real thing. JA was trending up - big time.

He's a college player, not a pro. Other than a handful of high school phenoms, that's why you go to college - to learn. I think JA took a while to become the player everyone thought he could be but I do think he finally got there.

All in all, this is a stupid argument because there is absolutely no way for anyone to find out who was right. So this is my last post on the subject.

 

[patriot2000]

Edit... double post

 

[Pablo]

I'm dead serious. Our record would be exactly the same, 5-3, with or without Jon Arledge. And there is nothing a 2 month stretch of basketball in spring of 2013 will do to convince me otherwise.

I said it before...if this team goes .500 and fans think Jon Arledge would have been the huge difference in winning 5 or 6 more games, you've watched a different player than I have over his career.

While we can speculate on the impact of the loss of Arledge (particularly offensively), FWIW scoring is down so far this season compared to the entire 2012-13 season. Last season, the Patriots averaged 68.1 points per game, which ranked 152th out of 345 D-1 teams. Currently, the Patriots are averaging 66.4 ppg, which ranks about 297th out of 345 D-1 teams (and last in the A10).

 

[A.-Siegfried]

Arledge started the final 18 games of last season. Mason went 10-8. Their record prior to that...12-8. Not a ton of difference. That's my point. Arledge was a piece, not a difference maker. If he ran the point, I'd tend to agree. The team wasn't significantly better with Arledge starting, than they were with him getting spot minutes.

As far as scoring 66.4 points a game this year compared to 68.1 last year...the team is also giving up about 2 points LESS a game this season than last...(64 this year, 65.9 last year) so that's a wash wouldn't you say?

In fact, the Patriots are actually shooting BETTER from the field so far this year than all of last year. Again...it proves nothing.

Mason ranks 41st in scoring defense (out of 345 D1 teams) and 41st in 3 point defense.

 

[Pablo]

In fact, the Patriots are actually shooting BETTER from the field so far this year than all of last year. Again...it proves nothing.

While 2-pt. FG% is higher so far this season, the 3-pt. FG% and FT% were higher last season. Could any of the difference be attributed to the loss of Arledge who shot 41.4%
(12-29) behind the arc and 81.4% (79-97) from the FT line? While you might not agree, I sure would have liked to have seen a healthy Jonathan Arledge shooting FT's again this season with games on the line.

 

[A.-Siegfried]

While 2-pt. FG% is higher so far this season, the 3-pt. FG% and FT% were higher last season. Could any of the difference be attributed to the loss of Arledge who shot 41.4%
(12-29) behind the arc and 81.4% (79-97) from the FT line? While you might not agree, I sure would have liked to have seen a healthy Jonathan Arledge shooting FT's again this season with games on the line.

That assumes Arledge would A) be in the game with it on the line and B) he would actually get touches. Neither are a guarantee, but alas, NONE of the scenarios are guarantees.

On the other end...would Arledge also give up more points than the defense of Williams/Jenkins/Marko/(limited) Copes? Hard to say. It's not like Arledge has "lock down defender" on his resume.

And for all the insults tossed at Williams this season, he is shooting close to 50%. I'd say I'd like MORE shot attempts from him, not less.

 

[GMUgemini]

That assumes Arledge would A) be in the game with it on the line and B) he would actually get touches. Neither are a guarantee, but alas, NONE of the scenarios are guarantees.

On the other end...would Arledge also give up more points than the defense of Williams/Jenkins/Marko/(limited) Copes? Hard to say. It's not like Arledge has "lock down defender" on his resume.

And for all the insults tossed at Williams this season, he is shooting close to 50%. I'd say I'd like MORE shot attempts from him, not less.

Absolutely Arledge would have been in the game with it on the line. You don't leave a 6'9 guy who can run the floor and shoot over 80 from the FT line in the bench.

He's not a lockdown defender, but he's long and he moves well. He has trapped his fair share of players along the baseline with those long arms and he's better switching on screens than either Williams or Marko.

As great as Jenkins energy has been off the bench, I would rather have Arledge's size, skill and experience right now.

 

[Pablo]

Current records for former Mason assistants after today's games include:

Derek Kellogg's #21/22 ranked UMass Minutemen are 8-0.

Michael Cooney D-II West Georgia Wolves are 7-1.

Darrell Brooks' D-II Bowie State Bulldogs are 5-4.

 

[gmutom]

Derek Kellogg's #21/22 ranked UMass Minutemen are 8-0.

Good call, Pablos. I completely forgot the Kellogg was an assistant under Coach L in the late '90s. He's doing great now at his alma mater.

 

[Pablo]

Scott Cherry's High Point Panthers' (3-4) Preseason All-Big South First Team forward Allan Chaney has terminated his career for medical reasons - see
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-bas...-point-player-defibrillator-not-resume-career. Chaney, 1 or 2 D-I players who was competing this season with an implantable cardioverter defibrillator (ICD), was advised by his cardiologist and other physicians to end his career after his ICD was activated during the Panthers' 5th game of the season. Chaney was averaging 15.4 ppg & 8.6 rpg in 23.8 mpg.

If you recall, Mason medically disqualified Darren Tarver after an ICD was inserted in his chest following his cardiac arrest prior to the 2002-03 season.'

 

[Pablo]

Evidently, there are some Cornell fans who are displeased with Bill Courtney's coaching - see
http://cornellbball.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=820.

 

[Walter]

Evidently, there are some Cornell fans who are displeased with Bill Courtney's coaching - see
http://cornellbball.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=820.

Maybe Hewitt should hire Bill after Cornell fires him. He does like to hire fired coaches. He somehow relates to them, I guess.

 

[Bricker]

I know the Nard Dog isn't happy with that record...

 

[JimP]

Absolutely Arledge would have been in the game with it on the line. You don't leave a 6'9 guy who can run the floor and shoot over 80 from the FT line in the bench.

He's not a lockdown defender, but he's long and he moves well. He has trapped his fair share of players along the baseline with those long arms and he's better switching on screens than either Williams or Marko.

As great as Jenkins energy has been off the bench, I would rather have Arledge's size, skill and experience right now.

The loss of Arledge is huge. At least GMU would have two forwards in him and Marko who could score. Lord knows these guys could use a player who can hit free throws. I say GMU is 6-3 at this point if they did not lose Arledge.

 

[A.-Siegfried]

A one game difference? This team should already be 6-3 if they don't blow a 17 point lead at home.....

The only forwards that could save this team are named will Thomas, George Evans, Ryan Pearson or Jail Lewis. And none of them are walking through that door. And even if they did, the guards would have to get them the ball and that might be an issue.....

 

[Pablo]

PG Jay Threatt (MLP Academics Heidelberg) is 10th in ppg (16.9), 2nd in apg (7.1), & 8th in spg (1.7) in the Germany Pro A League.

Considering Threatt's success at Delaware State and in the pros, is it likely that he would have developed into an impact player here had he stayed and developed under Coach Larranaga?

 

[GMUgemini]

Pablo, that probably depends on what type of player Threatt was -- was he more of a freelancer or was he able to fit into a team oriented system? We didn't get much of a chance to look at him in a Mason uniform.

If he was the former, he would have clashed with Larranaga's philosophy and might have thrived under Hewitt's.

 

[Pablo]

Pablo, that probably depends on what type of player Threatt was -- was he more of a freelancer or was he able to fit into a team oriented system? We didn't get much of a chance to look at him in a Mason uniform.

If he was the former, he would have clashed with Larranaga's philosophy and might have thrived under Hewitt's.

Gemini,

As far as I know, he's always been a team oriented player. And, there appeared to be good rapport between Larranaga and Threatt at a practice that I attended. I read the reason he left was that he was uncomfortable at Mason after the assistants who recruited him left.

It was also evident that he wasn't going to get much quality PT on the 2007-08 CAA championship team. And, we know many fans did not want him here after his arrest (although he was cleared of all charges) and questioned whether he was talented enough for D-I.

 

[GMUgemini]

In that case, I would have loved for him to stick around. He could have helped fill the void at point guard we've had since Jordan Carter graduated.

Has there been a string of worse luck than at "point guards" we've recruited? Cam Long (better off the ball), Andre Cornelius (better off the ball), Bryon Allen (better off the ball), Corey Edwards (big disappointment so far). At least Marquis Moore has a lot of potential.