OT: Conference Realignment

[Falco]

Please. Stop.

Why? This is a forum to express opinions.

 

[Old Man]

Why? This is a forum to express opinions.

Sure, but really, positing Mason leaving the A10. I'm not ready to wave the white flag and concede yet.

 

[phoenix-arizona]

Just continue to corner the Philadelphia market and grab Drexel.

 

[Verdad]

Sure, but really, positing Mason leaving the A10. I'm not ready to wave the white flag and concede yet.

Maybe we need to redefine what constitutes an opinion worth sharing

 

[Patriot8]

Guys.. if you’re going to suggest an addition, please make sure they add VALUE to the league.

Again..

 

[Walter]

My prediction is that with consolidation of power in college football, many large publics - our peers - will drop football. Non P2 football will be a huge money pit with very little benefit.

Then we might be able to have a basketball only conference with other large publics. Timeframe? 5 - 10 years.

But won't basketball also be impacted in a similar way? Yep, but not to the same extent.

 

[Pikapppatri8]

My prediction is that with consolidation of power in college football, many large publics - our peers - will drop football. Non P2 football will be a huge money pit with very little benefit.

Then we might be able to have a basketball only conference with other large publics. Timeframe? 5 - 10 years.

But won't basketball also be impacted in a similar way? Yep, but not to the same extent.

This is a salient point - football is impacted most because it is capital intensive. Basketball is not. So our peers would be better positioned to compete in basketball. College football is quickly becoming an NFL farm team that can only be supported through schools with the cash to do it.

 

[Old Man]

This is a salient point - football is impacted most because it is capital intensive. Basketball is not. So our peers would be better positioned to compete in basketball. College football is quickly becoming an NFL farm team that can only be supported through schools with the cash to do it.

While I agree with your statement above, I have a slightly different take on your conclusion.

Sure, schools need cash for football, but many of the schools in question are state schools with 'unlimited' resources, ie the taxpayer citizens. (Insert snarky, sarcastic comment here.) However, what seems to get lost in all this capitalistic talk, ie it takes money, is the fact that a school with football, particularly D1, FBS football, has a certain status that other schools without do not.

So, the schools that don't make money, which are most of them, may treat football as a loss leader. The thinking/question goes, sure football costs more than it brings in, but if we cut football, how much prestige, real or perceived, will the school lose? How many students, particularly out of state students (where the real tuition money is for a state school), will no longer apply or attend our fine institution without football?

It's kind of like when we went to the Final Four. Sure we got extra money for the number of games we played, but the real benefit was the publicity and the money brought in to GMU because of it.

I'm not sure how schools will quantity those numbers, but that will be the reason many schools keep football as they lose money.

 

[GMUgemini]

Well, for schools like Rutgers, Vanderbilt, Berkeley, Northwestern, or Stanford the answer to that question is zero loss of prestige. I’d honestly be surprised if even schools like Michigan, UCLA, or Texas lost much in the way of prestige or enrollment if they dropped football (oh, I would throw UNC, and Georgia Tech into that same lot too).

For WVU, being in the Big 12 seems to not be helping their enrollment at all, and the university is running tens of millions of dollars into debt with expensive infrastructure costs.

What you’re really talking about is a school like Alabama or Oregon, which has gained tons of prestige off the back of its football team’s success, but not every school is like that. Even Notre Dame is a highly selective elite institution first and a massive football brand second.

 

[Walter]

I would say that ODU, JMU, Georgia State and similar large publics have managed to get in a conference with other large lowly ranked publics. So, good job guys, the "investment" in football is really paying off. But those are their peers, so it makes sense.

Yes, all have gotten some publicity by upsetting a few P5 teams. But, no one goes to ODU or GSU games. JMU has a good thing going now, but their USNews rankings are below Mason, so football isn't helping them with their academic reputation.

I am willing to bet in ten years, ODU and JMU fans will look back to the pre-2012 CAA as the best conference for fan interest. We and vcu will likely do the same if UMass, SLU and Dayton leave the A10..

 

[Pablo]

https://www.fresnobee.com/news/article279386559.html

"WILL MOUNTAIN WEST CONFERENCE SPLIT UP?

The outcome of Pac-12 litigation and control of its assets could become dicey for some schools in the Mountain West.

If Oregon State and Washington State control the Pac-12 assets, would they go after six big market schools from the Mountain West, American Athletic Conference or Conference USA in an effort to maximize media rights value in the new league?

That would bring exit fees into play - in the Mountain West, a school departing the conference with less than one year’s notice would have to pay around $34 million. But they would at least have assets that could be targeted to rebuild the conference.

It would take votes from nine of 12 football-playing members of the Mountain West to dissolve the conference, but would Oregon State and Washington State try to break up the league? They could invite only the nine most desirable Mountain West schools to join them and eliminate its exit fees, and revenue from a media rights deal for the restructured conference would then be split 11 ways instead of 14.

Or, would Oregon State and Washington State simply welcome all of the Mountain West schools under what would be a Pac-14 banner?"

\

 

[GMUgemini]

Wyoming president’s fingernails are bitten down to the quick at this point…

 

[Pikapppatri8]

I would say that ODU, JMU, Georgia State and similar large publics have managed to get in a conference with other large lowly ranked publics. So, good job guys, the "investment" in football is really paying off. But those are their peers, so it makes sense.

Yes, all have gotten some publicity by upsetting a few P5 teams. But, no one goes to ODU or GSU games. JMU has a good thing going now, but their USNews rankings are below Mason, so football isn't helping them with their academic reputation.

I am willing to bet in ten years, ODU and JMU fans will look back to the pre-2012 CAA as the best conference for fan interest. We and vcu will likely do the same if UMass, SLU and Dayton leave the A10..

I don't see a lot of defection out of the A-10 near term. It is a strong basketball conference. And it has some regional center of gravity.

 

[2011WinOverVillanova]

I would say that ODU, JMU, Georgia State and similar large publics have managed to get in a conference with other large lowly ranked publics. So, good job guys, the "investment" in football is really paying off. But those are their peers, so it makes sense.

Yes, all have gotten some publicity by upsetting a few P5 teams. But, no one goes to ODU or GSU games. JMU has a good thing going now, but their USNews rankings are below Mason, so football isn't helping them with their academic reputation.

I am willing to bet in ten years, ODU and JMU fans will look back to the pre-2012 CAA as the best conference for fan interest. We and vcu will likely do the same if UMass, SLU and Dayton leave the A10..

I respectfully disagree. There's potential for a Skinn-Caputo rivalry to become what Riley vs Van Gundy was in the 90s. The vcu rivalry speaks for itself. Davidson is a known program from their days with Curry.

If people don't care? That's on them.

 

[GMUgemini]

I respectfully disagree. There's potential for a Skinn-Caputo rivalry to become what Riley vs Van Gundy was in the 90s. The vcu rivalry speaks for itself. Davidson is a known program from their days with Curry.

If people don't care? That's on them.

I like what’s going on with St. Joes and Fordham too, those games have had a lot of emotion from the players and some crazy stuff has happened (especially all the close finishes with Joes—two buzzer beaters in one season) etc. UMass, too, to be honest.

We just need to be vying for top 3 for people to actually start caring about these games. If we can consistently chase for top 4 and be in the conversation for winning the conference I think a lot of feelings about the other teams in the conference will shift.

 

[mkaufman1]

I respectfully disagree. There's potential for a Skinn-Caputo rivalry to become what Riley vs Van Gundy was in the 90s. The vcu rivalry speaks for itself. Davidson is a known program from their days with Curry.

If people don't care? That's on them.

Its a little extreme to compare Skinn/Caputo to Riley vs Van Gundy. I sincerely doubt that Mason and GW will play Knicks/Heat type games that they played in the 90s. I don't think they'll have a brawl or be chucking one another to the floor like they did back then.

That said, if Mason and GW improve and are vying for top 4 positioning, the storylines write themselves (the coaches, battle of the Georges, local rivalry).

Problem is, neither Mason or GW have come close at the same time of being a top 4 battle. Mason/vcu has heat because we all remember how it used to be, but thats nothing more than our fanbase hating their fanbase and vice versa. The rivalry hasn't been much on the court when vcu wins 95% of the time. Yeah its fun to make fun of the Mcdonalds workers, but other than that, us Mason fans have nothing.

Win, win consistently, and it doesn't matter who the rivals are. That will show up and correct itself.

 

[2011WinOverVillanova]

I like what’s going on with St. Joes and Fordham too, those games have had a lot of emotion from the players and some crazy stuff has happened (especially all the close finishes with Joes—two buzzer beaters in one season) etc. UMass, too, to be honest.

We just need to be vying for top 3 for people to actually start caring about these games. If we can consistently chase for top 4 and be in the conversation for winning the conference I think a lot of feelings about the other teams in the conference will shift.

Will they?

https://www.foxsports.com/stories/c...dance-dropping-for-duke-mens-basketball-games

If a program like Duke has trouble getting students to care what does that say about our prospects?



And don't just say if we win they'll come because Kim English put forth a 20 win team and one of his biggest complaints was the lack of atmosphere in the Arena.

Sure we have a new coach in Tony Skinn and that's great but let's be REAL.

The student section is still as dead as the crypt keeper in tales from the crypt and what is the strategy from MARVIN LEWIS to bring them back to what it was when I was in the front row with Chris Brooks and Jake from 2006-2010? There should be coordination with The Green Machine as well.

Or is he just content to turn on the lights roll out the basketball and accept a mediocre gametime atmosphere?

 

[GMUgemini]

I wasn’t just talking about the students, though, I was talking about everyone (us included).

But yes the AD needs to change the culture around the gameday experience. The student section needs some student-run leadership (who cares and cares enough to pass the torch).

I have proposed a European style supporters group for alumni and fans and if I was actually in the DMV I’d be trying to convince some of y’all to join me in helping create it. A supporters section of alumni would help elevate the student section by bringing the energy from the other side of the arena. And if we could get it to grow year over year would create a tradition we currently lack.

The AD needs to support grass roots movements instead of trying to control everything. A Student-led “G force” (or whatever you want to call it) and an alumni led supporters group can’t work if they police everything we do. If it’s within NCAA regs let us do our thing. If people want to complain, let them complain about “the noise” and then ignore them.

 

[2011WinOverVillanova]

It also helped that GMU CCM had a passionate fan in Father Peter before he was unfairly transferred to JMU.

Where is the Greek Life?

Where is student government? When I was at Mason they organized the Gold Rush t shirts? What are the current "leaders" doing other than just putting another line on their linkedin march to the top of the Tracy Flick ladder?

Lot of questions. not many answers.

 

[GMU79]

Its a little extreme to compare Skinn/Caputo to Riley vs Van Gundy. I sincerely doubt that Mason and GW will play Knicks/Heat type games that they played in the 90s. I don't think they'll have a brawl or be chucking one another to the floor like they did back then.

That said, if Mason and GW improve and are vying for top 4 positioning, the storylines write themselves (the coaches, battle of the Georges, local rivalry).

Problem is, neither Mason or GW have come close at the same time of being a top 4 battle. Mason/vcu has heat because we all remember how it used to be, but thats nothing more than our fanbase hating their fanbase and vice versa. The rivalry hasn't been much on the court when vcu wins 95% of the time. Yeah its fun to make fun of the Mcdonalds workers, but other than that, us Mason fans have nothing.

Win, win consistently, and it doesn't matter who the rivals are. That will show up and correct itself.

Our fans hate them. Their fans couldn't care less about us...except to make fun of us.
I REALLY want to change that by whipping them a few times and knocking them off their pedestal.