NIL Thread

[EXpatriot13]

I’m all for NIL. But schools are investing time and resources into NIL deals. All the big time schools have NIL directors. This is where Title 9 comes into question for me.

In theory, if a university employee helps secure a lucrative NIL agreement for a male athlete, it stands to reason that they should strive to secure a deal of equal value for female athletes. Is this happening?

I don’t think there’s as much of a gap as you might think. Football is on an island and accounts for the vast majority of NIL deals/compensation at the overall sport level. Outside of that, women’s basketball isn’t far behind men’s. On an individual level it really comes down to the brand power and value of the individual athlete, there are some women’s basketball players with NIL values in the millions that far exceed their male counterparts.

A lot of insights here: https://biz.opendorse.com/nil-insights/

 

[Falco]

I don’t think there’s as much of a gap as you might think. Football is on an island and accounts for the vast majority of NIL deals/compensation at the overall sport level. Outside of that, women’s basketball isn’t far behind men’s. On an individual level it really comes down to the brand power and value of the individual athlete, there are some women’s basketball players with NIL values in the millions that far exceed their male counterparts.

A lot of insights here: https://biz.opendorse.com/nil-insights/

I appreciate your input. Nevertheless, I believe there may be a slight misunderstanding regarding my main argument. My point is that universities are brokering NIL deals. In order to ensure compliance with Title IX, it seems logical to expect universities to facilitate equal-value deals for both female and male athletes.

 

[EXpatriot13]

I appreciate your input. Nevertheless, I believe there may be a slight misunderstanding regarding my main argument. My point is that universities are brokering NIL deals. In order to ensure compliance with Title IX, it seems logical to expect universities to facilitate equal-value deals for both female and male athletes.

Got it, yea I think you’re right that this will eventually bubble up, especially when schools start to officially endorse/affiliate themselves with NIL collectives (which is already happening). It’s just difficult to regulate all of this with how poorly it’s been managed from the onset, there will need to be more reform at national and state levels.

 

[gmubrian]

I appreciate your input. Nevertheless, I believe there may be a slight misunderstanding regarding my main argument. My point is that universities are brokering NIL deals. In order to ensure compliance with Title IX, it seems logical to expect universities to facilitate equal-value deals for both female and male athletes.

A lot of people are extrapolating an AD endorsing a collective to going much further than that. It is my understanding that they are only allowed to encourage/endorse collectives and that brokering deals for individual players is not permitted (but see previously mentioned state preemption laws).

Do you have a link to an article where it indicates that the ADs are indeed brokering deals?

 

[Falco]

Do you have a link to an article where it indicates that the ADs are indeed brokering deals

Well most schools are hiring NIL Directors. . It’s quite possible I’m misunderstanding their job duties.

Wake Forest NIL Director Job posting.

• Develop plan for creating, securing, and implementing NIL resources for student-athletes and staff.
• Serve as liaison between student-athletes and external constituents and partners.
• Engage with campus partners to explore and establish NIL resources and opportunities.

Director of NIL Strategy, Department of Athletics - Winston Salem, NC job with Wake Forest University | 2623938

Application Instructions:External Applicants: Please upload your resume on the Apply screen. Your application will automatically populate your resume

careers.insidehighered.com

 

[Falco]

Do you have a link to an article where it indicates that the ADs are indeed brokering deals?

Anthony Richardson inks NIL deal with Gatorade | The NIL Deal

Florida's Anthony Richardson is expected to promote the SEC 'Game Day Challenge' as a part of the NIL deal with Gatorade.

www.nildealnow.com

gov-ron-desantis-nil-bill-schools-help-athletes-facilitate-deals/

Pennsylvania Amends NIL Law to Allow Schools to Arrange NIL Deals

Pennsylvania Governor Tom Wolf signed House Bill 2633 into law last Thursday. The bill removes language that prohibits schools from arranging NIL deals for their student-athletes. The bill also eliminates the requirement that student-athletes share their NIL contract with the school at least...

www.conductdetrimental.com

 

[gmubrian]

My point is that universities are brokering NIL deals. In order to ensure compliance with Title IX, it seems logical to expect universities to facilitate equal-value deals for both female and male athletes.

Well most schools are hiring NIL Directors. . It’s quite possible I’m misunderstanding their job duties.

Wake Forest NIL Director Job posting.

• Develop plan for creating, securing, and implementing NIL resources for student-athletes and staff.
• Serve as liaison between student-athletes and external constituents and partners.
• Engage with campus partners to explore and establish NIL resources and opportunities.

Director of NIL Strategy, Department of Athletics - Winston Salem, NC job with Wake Forest University | 2623938

Application Instructions:External Applicants: Please upload your resume on the Apply screen. Your application will automatically populate your resume

careers.insidehighered.com

Anthony Richardson inks NIL deal with Gatorade | The NIL Deal

Florida's Anthony Richardson is expected to promote the SEC 'Game Day Challenge' as a part of the NIL deal with Gatorade.

www.nildealnow.com

gov-ron-desantis-nil-bill-schools-help-athletes-facilitate-deals/

Pennsylvania Amends NIL Law to Allow Schools to Arrange NIL Deals

Pennsylvania Governor Tom Wolf signed House Bill 2633 into law last Thursday. The bill removes language that prohibits schools from arranging NIL deals for their student-athletes. The bill also eliminates the requirement that student-athletes share their NIL contract with the school at least...

www.conductdetrimental.com

I still don't see anything in those links where schools are "brokering" deals which is what you stated your main point is. They are going right up to the line, but don't appear to be crossing it based on what is in those articles.

 

[Falco]

I still don't see anything in those links where schools are "brokering" deals which is what you stated your main point is. They are going right up to the line, but don't appear to be crossing it based on what is in those articles.

yeah, I might be misinterpreting the role of a NIL Director.

 

[Patriotsince81]

In case you missed it check out Charles Barkley on 60 minutes. If you don't want to listen to the whole interview fast forward to about the 9 minute mark to hear him talk about college basketball.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBY-CdpH0CA

 

[GMU79]

In case you missed it check out Charles Barkley on 60 minutes. If you don't want to listen to the whole interview fast forward to about the 9 minute mark to hear him talk about college basketball.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBY-CdpH0CA

I have a lot of mixed feelings about Barkley, but I think he is spot on about the NIL, and I do long for the good old days of college basketball, football, etc.
Maybe players were getting cheated by universities profiting off their skills, and maybe the system needed to be updated...but not THIS!

 

[Patriotsince81]

I have a lot of mixed feelings about Barkley, but I think he is spot on about the NIL, and I do long for the good old days of college basketball, football, etc.
Maybe players were getting cheated by universities profiting off their skills, and maybe the system needed to be updated...but not THIS!

It will be interesting to see how this all pans out. One could argue that top players have been getting paid under the table for years, now it's just more out in the open. I still want to believe in the purity of athletics but those days are long gone.

 

[jessej]

Candid Coaches: What NIL price is a projected high-major starter in the transfer looking portal looking for?

Name, image and likeness has changed the game when it comes to recruiting transfers

www.cbssports.com

Isn't the average income in the USA around $52k?

 

[gmubrian]

Candid Coaches: What NIL price is a projected high-major starter in the transfer looking portal looking for?

Name, image and likeness has changed the game when it comes to recruiting transfers

www.cbssports.com

Isn't the average income in the USA around $52k?

Before this goes down a rabbit hole I'll point out that your implied comparison is apples to oranges. The average income earner doesn't have thousands of people willing to pay to watch them do their job and doesn't have millions of people watching them perform their job on TV. The average income earner doesn't have message boards cheering for them or tearing them down.

 

[GMUgemini]

Before this goes down a rabbit hole I'll point out that your implied comparison is apples to oranges. The average income earner doesn't have thousands of people willing to pay to watch them do their job and doesn't have millions of people watching them perform their job on TV. The average income earner doesn't have message boards cheering for them or tearing them down.

Sure, but none of this matters as it relates to their ability as an influencer, which is what NIL is supposed to be about. What you are talking about is revenue sharing, which is not what is happening right now.

My guess is that for the vast majority of these NIL deals the ROI is negative and what is basically happening is legalized bribery for the most part.

 

[gmubrian]

Sure, but none of this matters as it relates to their ability as an influencer, which is what NIL is supposed to be about. What you are talking about is revenue sharing, which is not what is happening right now.

My guess is that for the vast majority of these NIL deals the ROI is negative and what is basically happening is legalized bribery for the most part.

I don't really follow your point. NIL isn't "supposed to be" anything. People forget this isn't an NCAA program. The NCAA illegally prevented players from making money while they were in college and that has been rectified. Sure, you can view this as an end run around the current restriction on players not being allowed to be paid. We can agree to disagree on whether that should be the case even though teaching assistants and graduate assistants are allowed to be paid... These players are also the reason these coaches make very nice salaries.

NIL is finally allowing the people that bring the money into the institutions (the players) to finally get a share of the money.

 

[GMUgemini]

I don't really follow your point. NIL isn't "supposed to be" anything. People forget this isn't an NCAA program. The NCAA illegally prevented players from making money while they were in college and that has been rectified. Sure, you can view this as an end run around the current restriction on players not being allowed to be paid. We can agree to disagree on whether that should be the case even though teaching assistants and graduate assistants are allowed to be paid... These players are also the reason these coaches make very nice salaries.

NIL is finally allowing the people that bring the money into the institutions (the players) to finally get a share of the money.

NIL stands for Name, Image, and Likeness. It is meant to allow players to earn money based on those factors in the same way the average American worker can make a podcast or monetize a TikTok or Twitch account and earn nothing or 400,000 a month.

The money these players are earning isn’t money that is coming into the program or university and dispersed to the players as compensation, it is outside money going directly to the players supposed as a benefit of the value of the name, image, and likeness to the people who are giving them the money.

 

[gmubrian]

NIL stands for Name, Image, and Likeness. It is meant to allow players to earn money based on those factors in the same way the average American worker can make a podcast or monetize a TikTok or Twitch account and earn nothing or 400,000 a month.

The money these players are earning isn’t money that is coming into the program or university and dispersed to the players as compensation, it is outside money going directly to the players supposed as a benefit of the value of the name, image, and likeness to the people who are giving them the money.

I understand that part of your point, but I feel you are in the weeds here, that it wasn't responsive to the topic. Jessej's post, that I was responding to, was looking at it at a higher level. His comment was referencing income (not the legalitites/technicalities of NIL), which NIL is just another avenue of income for the athletes.

 

[GMUgemini]

I understand that part of your point, but I feel you are in the weeds here, that it wasn't responsive to the topic. Jessej's post, that I was responding to, was looking at it at a higher level. His comment was referencing income (not the legalitites/technicalities of NIL), which NIL is just another avenue of income for the athletes.

Yes and I was responding to your comment about the market value of these players (which was really a comment about the market value of the schools) and that these are two separate things currently.

So the market valuation of these NIL deals is really skewed because for the most part they are not tied to any kind of metrics or data at all, only the University brand the player is playing for.

 

[gmubrian]

Yes and I was responding to your comment about the market value of these players (which was really a comment about the market value of the schools) and that these are two separate things currently.

So the market valuation of these NIL deals is really skewed because for the most part they are not tied to any kind of metrics or data at all, only the University brand the player is playing for.

You, obviously, view it differently than me. This IS the market data. Since they are prohibited from being paid, the market is distorted, so NIL is the providing the best market data about the value of the players.

The brand of the university point I'll give you half credit on, but, the schools with the "best" brand are the schools with the big bucks, so they are getting the best players. It is still the best players getting the biggest bucks, on average. So, they are not trading on the schools brand (entirely) in that regard, they are going to those schools because of their value. They would get similar bucks no matter where they went (conversely, they won't go to schools that don't have that level of NIL money).

 

[GMUgemini]

Brian, you know better than I that when you really think about it is a dysfunctional and irrational market right now and to try to make any kind of rational justification for the numbers being thrown around by some of these boosters other than they’re winning to toss lots of money around to win recruiting battles, which isn’t exactly rational.

I get that you think these players deserve to be paid (I’m not going to argue about that, especially with what just happened to the PAC-12) and that NIL gets around the NCAA desperately trying to cling on to the fiction of amateurism. But that doesn’t mean we also have to pretend that the way it’s currently being practiced makes sense or is functioning well.

Anyway, long winded way of ultimately saying that, yeah, you can’t compare college basketball NIL to the US employment market.