Game 6: GMU (2-3) at Paradise Jam - Buffalo (1-4) on Monday, November 21, at 1 PM.

Are people really calling for Kim English to be fired already? Sidney Lowe got 5 years at a school that has 2 national titles, 27 NCAA tournaments and 13 sweet 16s..... Jim Christian got 7 years at a school that has 9 sweet 16s. Capel is in his 5th year with a .424 winning percentage, 14th, 13th, 12th, 11th, place ACC finishes. Pitt has been to 7 sweet 16s and 27 tournaments but he's in year 5. If anyone thinks English is canned after year 2 or 3 they are crazy! 1. Mason doesn't have that kind of money, 2. It was in really really bad shape when he took over, 3. Mason doesn't have that type of history to truly expect Tournament or bust, 4. It takes years to build a program, the expectations to turn the mess around in a year or 2 may have just been overly ambitious. While it's disappointing they aren't very good this year and yes there is a clear problem. It starts with a couple transfers who clearly have zero interest in playing team basketball even if their stats aren't as bad as others. I'm sure this isn't a new problem. They were labeled that way for a long time I'm sure. The current system allows them to continue with their ways. The only way Kim English is ever successful is if he defines an identity and builds a program. Trying to find castoffs that has been booted out of numerous programs rarely works. It's time to start building an actual program and finding kids who fit into his system whatever that may be, not just going out and grabbing kids in the transfer portal because they were highly recruited at one point or another out of high school.
 

GSII

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After knowing the outcome, then watching the Buffalo game, I gotta say Dinkins was very good. The more he played the better he got. Even vs BC. He could stay in front of his man, distributed the ball, hit shots, and didn't really turn it over. Only issue is he scored on down low.

If you go back and watch these games, you will probably see who is not doing their job. There are several vets that are letting the team down. It's time for KE to draw a line in the sand.
 

mkaufman1

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I will probably say this 1,000 different times in 1,000 different ways but just to be clear.

1) Nobody is looking to fire Kim English. Many of us (myself included) are disappointed with how Mason played at the Paradise Jam and didn't really show up at times. That is bad.
2) I have high expectations because I saw a veteran team with depth, size, scoring ability. I also expected improvement defensively. I worried about PG but CKE said Singleton was a PG and so I said okay fine, I'm behind it if that's what coach says.
3) The staff expected once again for RP to take the PG job. While he looked good the first few games, he is now hurt so we'll see how quickly he recovers. I was hoping Singleton was enough of a piece to play some minutes there (and he can), but without RP, we actually saw Dinkins take the reigns yesterday and do very well. I'm not against it, but I just didn't want this to happen (and so early in the season nonetheless).
4) We are obviously learning quickly that either KE can't win with so many new guys in a short period of time, or that he needs time to figure out how to coach division 1 basketball. Or, he isn't getting the support he needs as a first time coach. For me, he gets the 4 years to figure things out and show significant progress. I don't think he got the courtesy 1 year extension (Which I think he should get), so he soon will have a new boss. It is November of year 2, but so far THIS year, I have not been impressed. I expected more especially after how last season started. Long way to go on this topic. Maybe he just doesn't have the right mix of kids to win this year.

I don't know why Mason looks worse on defense. From what folks were saying on the ByGeorge spaces last night, it sounds like the kids are confused. That brings up the question of "if they are confused, what were they practicing". To me, that worries me. If I have some time today I will try and rewatch and see what guys are doing. I just know it was tiresome to watch BC and Buffalo get into the lane at will and make easy uncontested shots. Something is very wrong here.
 

Patriot Lawdog

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Are people really calling for Kim English to be fired already? Sidney Lowe got 5 years at a school that has 2 national titles, 27 NCAA tournaments and 13 sweet 16s..... Jim Christian got 7 years at a school that has 9 sweet 16s. Capel is in his 5th year with a .424 winning percentage, 14th, 13th, 12th, 11th, place ACC finishes. Pitt has been to 7 sweet 16s and 27 tournaments but he's in year 5. If anyone thinks English is canned after year 2 or 3 they are crazy! 1. Mason doesn't have that kind of money, 2. It was in really really bad shape when he took over, 3. Mason doesn't have that type of history to truly expect Tournament or bust, 4. It takes years to build a program, the expectations to turn the mess around in a year or 2 may have just been overly ambitious. While it's disappointing they aren't very good this year and yes there is a clear problem. It starts with a couple transfers who clearly have zero interest in playing team basketball even if their stats aren't as bad as others. I'm sure this isn't a new problem. They were labeled that way for a long time I'm sure. The current system allows them to continue with their ways. The only way Kim English is ever successful is if he defines an identity and builds a program. Trying to find castoffs that has been booted out of numerous programs rarely works. It's time to start building an actual program and finding kids who fit into his system whatever that may be, not just going out and grabbing kids in the transfer portal because they were highly recruited at one point or another out of high school.
Let's not exaggerate on the state of the program when CKE took over. Were things moving in the right direction? No. Were we at the bottom of the barrel like with Hewitt? No. Last I checked we weren't competing against Carolina or Duke, either. Noone is expecting a top 25 team, but we're also not expecting to be run out of the gym by BC and Buffalo. I was completely on board with his hire and still am to this point, but to act like he took over a 2-25 team is not the facts.
 

Masonfan3

Sixth Man
DP was nowhere near to bringing the kind of talent we needed to compete in the A10. CKE ceiling is still way higher. DP was a "do more with less" kinda guy but I'll take the higher ceiling, this MTE notwithstanding.
Won’t argue that the ceiling is higher with the roster we have. However, from a production standpoint I am not sure if we are better off today than we were back then. You can have all the talent in the world but what’s the point if doesn’t show up in the wins column? It’s not like we are talking about losing to the VCUs or Daytons if the world..we are losing to bottom of D1 teams.
 

mkaufman1

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Let's not exaggerate on the state of the program when CKE took over. Were things moving in the right direction? No. Were we at the bottom of the barrel like with Hewitt? No. Last I checked we weren't competing against Carolina or Duke, either. Noone is expecting a top 25 team, but we're also not expecting to be run out of the gym by BC and Buffalo. I was completely on board with his hire and still am to this point, but to act like he took over a 2-25 team is not the facts.
Won’t argue that the ceiling is higher with the roster we have. However, from a production standpoint I am not sure if we are better off today than we were back then. You can have all the talent in the world but what’s the point if doesn’t show up in the wins column? It’s not like we are talking about losing to the VCUs or Daytons if the world..we are losing to bottom of D1 teams.
These viewpoints are both accurate.

1) Kim didn't inherit a bottom barrel program, he inherited a mediocre program that needed a jolt.
2) The results haven't been there after 37 games. Its a fair point to look at the body of work and ask if we are better off. Results wise, its hard to argue we are. However, I would say that from a recruiting perspective purely, we are much better off. However, you can recruit well all you want, if you don't win it doesn't matter. And I am also disturbed about not showing up against Buffalo and Boston College as well. That irked me a lot too. However, Buffalo and Boston College are not bottom of D1 teams. They stink, but they are not at the bottom.
 

sleeperpick

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These viewpoints are both accurate.

1) Kim didn't inherit a bottom barrel program, he inherited a mediocre program that needed a jolt.
2) The results haven't been there after 37 games. Its a fair point to look at the body of work and ask if we are better off. Results wise, its hard to argue we are. However, I would say that from a recruiting perspective purely, we are much better off. However, you can recruit well all you want, if you don't win it doesn't matter. And I am also disturbed about not showing up against Buffalo and Boston College as well. That irked me a lot too. However, Buffalo and Boston College are not bottom of D1 teams. They stink, but they are not at the bottom.
Buffalo is absolutely a bottom barrel D1 team this year and Boston College has now lost to two bottom barrel D1 teams in Umaine and Tarleton St. They may not be bottom barrel but apparently bottom barrel teams can beat them consistently
 

mkaufman1

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Buffalo is absolutely a bottom barrel D1 team this year and Boston College has now lost to two bottom barrel D1 teams in Umaine and Tarleton St. They may not be bottom barrel but apparently bottom barrel teams can beat them consistently
Yeah - I mean when I think the bottom I think like bottom 50 on Kenpom. Doesn't really matter though.
 

GMU79

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I will probably say this 1,000 different times in 1,000 different ways but just to be clear.

1) Nobody is looking to fire Kim English. Many of us (myself included) are disappointed with how Mason played at the Paradise Jam and didn't really show up at times. That is bad.
2) I have high expectations because I saw a veteran team with depth, size, scoring ability. I also expected improvement defensively. I worried about PG but CKE said Singleton was a PG and so I said okay fine, I'm behind it if that's what coach says.
3) The staff expected once again for RP to take the PG job. While he looked good the first few games, he is now hurt so we'll see how quickly he recovers. I was hoping Singleton was enough of a piece to play some minutes there (and he can), but without RP, we actually saw Dinkins take the reigns yesterday and do very well. I'm not against it, but I just didn't want this to happen (and so early in the season nonetheless).
4) We are obviously learning quickly that either KE can't win with so many new guys in a short period of time, or that he needs time to figure out how to coach division 1 basketball. Or, he isn't getting the support he needs as a first time coach. For me, he gets the 4 years to figure things out and show significant progress. I don't think he got the courtesy 1 year extension (Which I think he should get), so he soon will have a new boss. It is November of year 2, but so far THIS year, I have not been impressed. I expected more especially after how last season started. Long way to go on this topic. Maybe he just doesn't have the right mix of kids to win this year.

I don't know why Mason looks worse on defense. From what folks were saying on the ByGeorge spaces last night, it sounds like the kids are confused. That brings up the question of "if they are confused, what were they practicing". To me, that worries me. If I have some time today I will try and rewatch and see what guys are doing. I just know it was tiresome to watch BC and Buffalo get into the lane at will and make easy uncontested shots. Something is very wrong here.
Yes! I personally never said KE should be fired. What I DID say was that he has to be feeling (well deserved) heat...even if it is from within himself, and that if things don't considerably improve throughout this year and next, he may not get that 4th year of his contract. Especially with Dr. W at the helm.
 

sleeperpick

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Yes! I personally never said KE should be fired. What I DID say was that he has to be feeling (well deserved) heat...even if it is from within himself, and that if things don't considerably improve throughout this year and next, he may not get that 4th year of his contract. Especially with Dr. W at the helm.
Respectfully unless he hits a kid or gets serious infractions there is a 0.0 percent chance he does not get to year 4
 

GMU79

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Won’t argue that the ceiling is higher with the roster we have. However, from a production standpoint I am not sure if we are better off today than we were back then. You can have all the talent in the world but what’s the point if doesn’t show up in the wins column? It’s not like we are talking about losing to the VCUs or Daytons if the world..we are losing to bottom of D1 teams.
I don't think we are better off right now than we were with DP. Bottom line, wins and losses are all that count.
 

mkaufman1

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You may be right about him not not getting year 4. But I think 0.0 is overstating things. imo.
Nah, he is right. We will say it 1,000,000 times. Unless English does something ridiculous, there is no chance he doesn't get at least 4 years. Like I said, there is even a chance that he gets the courtesy 1 year extension too.

Maybe he will be inspired by George Costanza and drive around Lot K with the Regional Championship trophy.

I am very tired of losing.
 
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GMUgemini

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I will say this about recruiting: when you can argue that Jarred Reuter defended and rebounded better than English’s recruits, you’ve got a serious problem.
 

GSII

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It's pretty obvious that nobody knows what their role is on this team. Everybody is trying way too hard except for when it comes to defense. Time for players only meeting.
 

gmujim92

Hall of Famer
I don't think we are better off right now than we were with DP. Bottom line, wins and losses are all that count.
After 6 years of DP we saw the ceiling and floor of the program under his leadership. In a word, we were never going to be more than mediocre.

The coin of the realm in college basketball is making the NCAA tournament and winning games once you get there. I’m willing to sacrifice a few meaningless regular-season Ws in the short term for the CHANCE that KE is the guy who will lead us back to the dance.

That’s why Dr. Washington swung for the fences by hiring him. If it doesn’t work out, so be it.
 

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