Game 21: GMU (15-5 / 4-3) at St. Joe’s (13-7 / 3-4) on Wednesday , January 31, at 7:00 PM.
- Thread starter Patriotsince81
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gmuballer14
Sixth Man
With Newton continually struggling. Do we possibly see Ball getting minutes? Might as well. Top 4 seems like a stretch playing like this
CHRISTOPHER JAMES JOLLAY
Hall of Famer
So Polite plays the fourth amount of minutes on the team, and Okojie the sixth, with Polite our fourth-leading scorer.
You could:
A) Make a grand show of benching the senior for the freshman and hope that lights a fire under Ronnie at the risk of you completely nullifying him as an asset due to his "indifference," or...
B) Just continue to ride the hot hand game to game and adjust the minutes accordingly as Skinn is doing.
I mean, I know you like to point out that you have coached before. I've coached AAU and HS for over a decade and have a little experience myself.
Is Baraka not getting enough minutes right now? I think he is. Did we win when Baraka started the second half? Do freshmen become more efficient at 30 plus minutes? Is there a freshman wall? Is there any analysis of what Polite brings or does not bring defensively to the table?
Who am I kidding, if you were in charge you wouldn't have tolerated Polite not being good enough at 19, he would have transferred, and Baraka would be playing 40 mpg right now and leading us to road wins at St Joseph's.
If the boards are going to become a no-humor area, competent basketball analysis beyond "bench Ronnie, play Baraka" would go a long way to making these boards readable again...
CHRISTOPHER JAMES JOLLAY
Hall of Famer
To clarify, the main issue I had with people here (and sleeper was the king of this) was labeling players as "good" and "not good" before they had a chance to develop. And wanting to run them off.
In fairness, Polite has had his chance to develop, some minutes adjustment game-to-game (like last night) is fine.
But what would benching him to start the game accomplish? Clearly, it will take our entire rotation clicking to get us into to the top four...
In fairness, Polite has had his chance to develop, some minutes adjustment game-to-game (like last night) is fine.
But what would benching him to start the game accomplish? Clearly, it will take our entire rotation clicking to get us into to the top four...
Dawgs99
Starter
I'd continue to start RP and then adjust his and BO's minutes as the game dictates. But lets not get it twisted here, BO is a future all A-10 pg and he has already surpassed RP in pretty much every facet of the game sans shooting. We can all appreciate Ronny's loyalty to the program while at the same time realizing that the torch is being passed right before our eyes this season. To me the real question becomes what does RP do with his Covid year? What does Dinkins do? Can Justin Begg contribute in year 1?
I don't think anyone is saying "OMG RONNY SUCKS DONT LET HIM SEE THE FLOOR"
I think we're all exhausted from seeing what he can or can't do and being inconsistent. We need him playing his best basketball (much like he did last February). I personally don't care if he starts or hes first off the bench or anything. The way TS handles him and Baraka has been perfect, riding the hot hand. I think we all root for him a LOT and want him to be at his very best all the time. Unfortunately he goes in waves where he is a non-factor much like last night although somehow he did manage 3 assists.
Don't even know where I am going with this point because it wasn't his fault that we lost last night. It was a team loss.
Thing is, he plays a really awesome role at the top of the 1-3-1 and has length and experience. I suspect his defense is well ahead of Ball's at this point of his collegiate career as well. That said, I do agree that much like the Bonaventure game, Tony needs to find a few minutes for Ball to come in.
I think we're all exhausted from seeing what he can or can't do and being inconsistent. We need him playing his best basketball (much like he did last February). I personally don't care if he starts or hes first off the bench or anything. The way TS handles him and Baraka has been perfect, riding the hot hand. I think we all root for him a LOT and want him to be at his very best all the time. Unfortunately he goes in waves where he is a non-factor much like last night although somehow he did manage 3 assists.
Don't even know where I am going with this point because it wasn't his fault that we lost last night. It was a team loss.
Now this is an interesting point. Newton has been iced cold from the floor for a good half a season now.
Thing is, he plays a really awesome role at the top of the 1-3-1 and has length and experience. I suspect his defense is well ahead of Ball's at this point of his collegiate career as well. That said, I do agree that much like the Bonaventure game, Tony needs to find a few minutes for Ball to come in.
Not to speak for everyone else, but what frustrates me about RP is that we saw how well and assertively he played the second half of last season and have seen flashes this season (Tulane), yet for some reason he is unable to consistently find his offense with this group of players.
If we got Tulane Ronny every game (or even most games), we’re a dangerous top-4 team and nobody is talking about moving Baraka into the starting 5.
Knowing someone is capable, and yet cannot summon even close to his best performance, is annoying — particularly because he’s a senior and this should be the best of him from a developmental perspective.
If this team is gonna do anything in Brooklyn, Ronny needs to locate his game.
X
Looks like you just did.
This I agree with.
My biggest question - why at the end of the half with the chance to take the last shot and go into half with a lead are we driving to the hoop with 11 sec left and forcing up a shot and allowing SJU 6 sec to come down the court for an easy layup? I'm not smart, so can anyone explain this to me? It seems like Kelly setting up the screen for Baraka to drive at 13 sec is way too early.
We do this a LOT...I mean allowing last second drives.
And our defense is like a hot knife through butter in allowing fast guards to the basket.
That had to be a brainfart decision on our part at the end of the first half. No reason to not dribble the half out. In full agreement there.
It obviously was part of the St Joes game plan to get out and run, and they did that a lot. The end of the half layup they got was frustrating as well. Ronny tried to get in the way of the layup but didn't, and they got an easy 2 points.
It also seemed like we went away from the 1-3-1 in a lot of the second half. Now I know its not perfect and we'll give up some 3s with it, but I think it has a high rate of being effective. Not sure why we went away from it. That said, it didn't really matter what defense we tried, we couldn't get the stops when needed.
Mason goes as Ronnie goes. In our 4 conference losses, he has had 0, 3, 13, and 8 pts. In hindsight, given what Ronnie has shown he is capable of and his overall career/dedication to Mason (and continued engagement when BO takes over in certain games), CTS has handled the situation perfectly.
He is leaving the door open for Ronnie to have good games and contribute, while simultaneously opening the door for BO to flourish. In general, based on their play, I would be in favor of starting the player like BO over the player like Ronnie, but I don't think Ronnie is the player that "needs to get the message".
Ronnie's inconsistency (if not regression since the Richmond game) combined with Newton's cold streak to me are the two single biggest factors in why we have 4 conference losses.
Agree that I would like to see Ball getting some more minutes to come in off bench and shoot some 3's each game.
Ronnie's game log:
He is leaving the door open for Ronnie to have good games and contribute, while simultaneously opening the door for BO to flourish. In general, based on their play, I would be in favor of starting the player like BO over the player like Ronnie, but I don't think Ronnie is the player that "needs to get the message".
Ronnie's inconsistency (if not regression since the Richmond game) combined with Newton's cold streak to me are the two single biggest factors in why we have 4 conference losses.
Agree that I would like to see Ball getting some more minutes to come in off bench and shoot some 3's each game.
Ronnie's game log:
I think we usually get enough from the Hall/Maddox/Kelly trio, and more recently Okojie, that we no longer need Polite to be “the guy” or the player who carried us second half of last season. Of course if he unlocked that it’d take us to a different level, just doesn’t seem to be there.
We at least need a consistent 6-8ppg from him alone, which at this stage in his career, shouldn’t be something that has to be pulled out of him.
I’m not going to single him out because there are others we need more from. Newton has been a non factor offensively in league play (love his defense), he’s avg 2ppg vs. the 7.4ppg he avg in the OOC (much a product of his now inability to hit 3s).
Can we get anything from Wood when healthy? Or Ball? Far less reliable options.
We at least need a consistent 6-8ppg from him alone, which at this stage in his career, shouldn’t be something that has to be pulled out of him.
I’m not going to single him out because there are others we need more from. Newton has been a non factor offensively in league play (love his defense), he’s avg 2ppg vs. the 7.4ppg he avg in the OOC (much a product of his now inability to hit 3s).
Can we get anything from Wood when healthy? Or Ball? Far less reliable options.
Two things that are overlooked right now when it comes to this team’s consistency is what has happened at the 5: Pavrette leaves the team and then Malik missed time unexpectedly and hasn’t really been the same since.
Because of that, Newton has been coming in for Kelly instead of Hall or Maddox at the 3/4 spot, which I think is partially responsible for his regression in shooting.
We have zero depth at the 5 right now, which has reduced our depth at the 4 spot. And this just compounds the RP inconsistency because of he isn’t reliable enough to take some minutes from Billups at the 2 then the entire rotation gets screwed up.
I’m not sure Ball coming in really helps much in that while he’s decent defensively he gets lost in the wash sometimes and there’s no way he was going to be able to defend Joes guards well enough to make a difference on that side of the ball, which was really our problem last night. Still would like to see him come in for at least 5-7 minutes per game.
Because of that, Newton has been coming in for Kelly instead of Hall or Maddox at the 3/4 spot, which I think is partially responsible for his regression in shooting.
We have zero depth at the 5 right now, which has reduced our depth at the 4 spot. And this just compounds the RP inconsistency because of he isn’t reliable enough to take some minutes from Billups at the 2 then the entire rotation gets screwed up.
I’m not sure Ball coming in really helps much in that while he’s decent defensively he gets lost in the wash sometimes and there’s no way he was going to be able to defend Joes guards well enough to make a difference on that side of the ball, which was really our problem last night. Still would like to see him come in for at least 5-7 minutes per game.
Agreed. Feels like we’re not far away from being in good shape — don’t need RP, Malik and Woody to morph into something they’re not, just need them to get back to being who they are and complement what we’re getting from the Core 4 plus Baraka.
That was definitely a head-scratcher, but then we doubled down on the mistake by not fouling on the break when we had a few fouls to give. Both Hall and Polite had a chance to take the foul but let him go right by and score an uncontested layup.
Hence, "boneheaded play" number one.
There was about a 3 second difference between shot clock and game clock, so taking it down to zero wasn't an option. I was fine with the decision to go at around 9 seconds, but the transition defense was appalling. All five Patriots were well under the FT line because Amari followed Baraka into the paint and we had shooters in each corner. Missed opportunities to give a foul and set the defense, as someone mentioned. Just messy.
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