Mason beats Shockers!!!

[GMUgemini]

I agree, but I'm not the one proposing the elimination of sports to the minimum required by the NCAA as some posters are (including Five Two and Brian).

I'd rather a modest increasing In student fees to the order of maybe 50 a year. But the administration seems deadest against that.

 

[Pablo]

I'd rather a modest increasing In student fees to the order of maybe 50 a year. But the administration seems deadest against that.

Gemini,

Again, these posters are proposing devoting more resources to the minimum number of sports required by the NCAA.

 

[Five Two]

But, does anyone seriously expect Mason to compete with schools like Wichita State for NCAA championships in baseball. If not, then can't you make the case to eliminate baseball and commit more funds to sports that you can realistically win NCAA team or individual championships?

I think we could make the argument that none of our sports can compete for a NCAA or individual championship. that doesn't mean we should cut them all.

I do realize baseball has been cut at many schools recently. It requires almost 30 players on a roster, 3 coaches, a specific field that can't be used for other sports, etc. My comments were not made as a referendum on keeping baseball and eliminating other sports.

 

[Pablo]

I think we could make the argument that none of our sports can compete for a NCAA or individual championship. that doesn't mean we should cut them all.

I do realize baseball has been cut at many schools recently. It requires almost 30 players on a roster, 3 coaches, a specific field that can't be used for other sports, etc. My comments were not made as a referendum on keeping baseball and eliminating other sports.

Again, I'm just saying that you need to be careful what you wish for. BTW, surely you don't believe that Mason is incapable of competing for individual NCAA championships in sports like track and field?

 

[A.-Siegfried]

Mason may not be able to compete for a National Title in baseball, but there is no reason they shouldn't be able to at least make the NCAA's on a regular basis. Of course I feel that way for all our sports. I think if you are going to sponsor a sport, it should get the full weight of the university behind it. I'm ok with cutting sports if it will strengthen all the others, not just basketball.

 

[gmubrian]

Again, I'm just saying that you need to be careful what you wish for. BTW, surely you don't believe that Mason is incapable of competing for individual NCAA championships in sports like track and field?

Pablo, Five-two is one of the few that is realistic about our situation and is taking the high road by not playing favorites. If there were more people like him, we might have a reasonable number of sports that the university could fund adequately. Instead you suggest, much like PiKapp's post about volleyball, that we should keep them because one or two people like them. If you like a sport that much, than give it funding, help to raise funding for it so it is not high on the "expensive to operate" list.

Instead we have people that don't want to face facts that it is expensive to run sports, suggest that we tax some other group of people to pay for their desire. It is for those reasons that many ADs won't address the issue of insufficient funding for some sports. Both I and five two (his was a more detailed version of what I was suggesting) have proposed a way to objectively determine which sports should go. Others want to put emotional measures into it, which is what always messes up any system that could work otherwise.

 

[Pablo]

Pablo, Five-two is one of the few that is realistic about our situation and is taking the high road by not playing favorites. If there were more people like him, we might have a reasonable number of sports that the university could fund adequately. Instead you suggest, much like PiKapp's post about volleyball, that we should keep them because one or two people like them. If you like a sport that much, than give it funding, help to raise funding for it so it is not high on the "expensive to operate" list.

Instead we have people that don't want to face facts that it is expensive to run sports, suggest that we tax some other group of people to pay for their desire. It is for those reasons that many ADs won't address the issue of insufficient funding for some sports. Both I and five two (his was a more detailed version of what I was suggesting) have proposed a way to objectively determine which sports should go. Others want to put emotional measures into it, which is what always messes up any system that could work otherwise.

Brian,

Obviously, you're confused about my position. First, it's easy for people to take the high road when it has not yet affected them. We'll see how these current and former Mason baseball players (which I believe includes Five Two) feel if Mason ever proposes the elimination of their sport.

Secondly, I'm not opposed to the elimination of sports that are not funded sufficiently to be competitive. But, I am opposed to the reduction of sports to an arbitrary number determined to be the NCAA minimum as Five Two and you recommend.

 

[Pikapppatri8]

Pablo, Five-two is one of the few that is realistic about our situation and is taking the high road by not playing favorites. If there were more people like him, we might have a reasonable number of sports that the university could fund adequately. Instead you suggest, much like PiKapp's post about volleyball, that we should keep them because one or two people like them. If you like a sport that much, than give it funding, help to raise funding for it so it is not high on the "expensive to operate" list.

Instead we have people that don't want to face facts that it is expensive to run sports, suggest that we tax some other group of people to pay for their desire. It is for those reasons that many ADs won't address the issue of insufficient funding for some sports. Both I and five two (his was a more detailed version of what I was suggesting) have proposed a way to objectively determine which sports should go. Others want to put emotional measures into it, which is what always messes up any system that could work otherwise.

Won't anyone think about the volleyball player's tushies?

 

[gmujim92]

Won't anyone think about the volleyball player's tushies?

Women's volleyball uniforms are a gift from the gods, and we should all give thanks.

Wait, you were talking about the women's tushies, right?

 

[gmubrian]

Brian,

Obviously, you're confused about my position. First, it's easy for people to take the high road when it has not yet affected them. We'll see how these current and former Mason baseball players (which I believe includes Five Two) feel if Mason ever proposes the elimination of their sport.

Not confused at all about your position. I don't see much difference between keeping them all and not reducing it to the minimum required to stay in the NCAA.

Yes. It is easier to take the high road in that instance, but most still don't do it as evidenced by the views on this thread. Of course they are not going to like it, but that is not a good reason not to do it if an objective analysis says it has to go.

Secondly, I'm not opposed to the elimination of sports that are not funded sufficiently to be competitive. But, I am opposed to the reduction of sports to an arbitrary number determined to be the NCAA minimum as Five Two and you recommend.

Again, I don't understand the logic for keeping any sport we don't have to keep except Men's basketball. That is the only sport (at Mason) that has any potential to pay a return on the investment. Any other reason you can come up with to keep sports around that don't return revenue are way more expensive than other alternatives to accomplish a similar goal (education, charity, entertainment).

The only other one that might have a glimmer of hope might be baseball if you thought you might get some big league guys making money that would give back. But, is that even likely given how Baseball is is currently operated. We already have a couple guys in the baseball big leagues, yet I have not heard of any significant donations on that front.

No other sports I can think of at Mason get either significant attendance or significant prospects of a future pro donating back.

 

[Pablo]

Not confused at all about your position. I don't see much difference between keeping them all and not reducing it to the minimum required to stay in the NCAA.

Yes. It is easier to take the high road in that instance, but most still don't do it as evidenced by the views on this thread. Of course they are not going to like it, but that is not a good reason not to do it if an objective analysis says it has to go.



Again, I don't understand the logic for keeping any sport we don't have to keep except Men's basketball. That is the only sport (at Mason) that has any potential to pay a return on the investment. Any other reason you can come up with to keep sports around that don't return revenue are way more expensive than other alternatives to accomplish a similar goal (education, charity, entertainment).

The only other one that might have a glimmer of hope might be baseball if you thought you might get some big league guys making money that would give back. But, is that even likely given how Baseball is is currently operated. We already have a couple guys in the baseball big leagues, yet I have not heard of any significant donations on that front.

No other sports I can think of at Mason get either significant attendance or significant prospects of a future pro donating back.

Obviously, I disagree with you. Perhaps, my perspective is different because my alma mater is committed to competing for NCAA championships in many sports. But, if I were a George Mason alum, I would be proud that my school has won NCAA D-1 team championships in women's soccer and men's indoor track and field (how many schools have) as well as many NCAA individual championships in track and field.

 

[gmubrian]

Obviously, I disagree with you. Perhaps, my perspective is different because my alma mater is committed to competing for NCAA championships in many sports. But, if I were a George Mason alum, I would be proud that my school has won NCAA D-1 team championships in women's soccer and men's indoor track and field (how many schools have) as well as many NCAA individual championships in track and field.

That is some pretty expensive pride you are proposing and it is coming as a tax in one of the poorer segments of society, students.

So you think it is Ok to force a large athletic program on all students to service your sense of pride in competing for championships?

I would be proud of programs that are self sufficient on the basis of voluntary donations and revenue generated. Since it can't be cut back to just men's basketball, the next best thing is to cut it to the minimum required.

 

[Pablo]

That is some pretty expensive pride you are proposing and it is coming as a tax in one of the poorer segments of society, students.

So you think it is Ok to force a large athletic program on all students to service your sense of pride in competing for championships?

I would be proud of programs that are self sufficient on the basis of voluntary donations and revenue generated. Since it can't be cut back to just men's basketball, the next best thing is to cut it to the minimum required.

I'm sure that you as well as many other posters would gladly recommend the elimination of wrestling at Mason. Would you be surprised if I told you that wrestling has been successful recently in fundraising and is second to men's basketball in the number of season ticket holders - see http://www.virginiawrestling.com/news_article/show/293412?referrer_id=979505?

 

[Pikapppatri8]

Women's volleyball uniforms are a gift from the gods, and we should all give thanks.

Wait, you were talking about the women's tushies, right?

Yes the women's full nubile tushies straining to burst out of their uniforms.

 

[GMUgemini]

Speaking of trying to generate revenue for the other sports, what ever happened to the fall sports pass promotion they did where your pass was a scarf (something like $30 and you get a scarf and access to all the fall sports)? I thought that was a clever and interesting promotion. Are they still doing this? And if not, why? Not enough interest? Bad cost-benefit ratio?

 

[Pikapppatri8]

That is some pretty expensive pride you are proposing and it is coming as a tax in one of the poorer segments of society, students.

So you think it is Ok to force a large athletic program on all students to service your sense of pride in competing for championships?

I would be proud of programs that are self sufficient on the basis of voluntary donations and revenue generated. Since it can't be cut back to just men's basketball, the next best thing is to cut it to the minimum required.

Brian,

You an I think alike in many ways. But Pablos has some points. Mason has been growing in size, rank and capability as an institution. Part of this has to be athletics. I would argue you could cut one or two sports - but the biggies you should invest in. I would say that since we STILL have some of the lowest athletic fees of any institution in the Commonwealth - we could bump it up $150 a year per student and adequately fund our programs. Combine that with a more aggressive fund raising campaign and you make the mince.

Congrats on the Track and Field team for winning an A10 championship. Our second A10 championship this year. You want to play big - you got to invest and Mason has more resources at hand than we admit. Now this would have to be done smart - but cutting away a lot - that ends up doing more harm than good.

 

[patriot2000]

Basketball generates revenue that supports the other sports...

...when we sell lots of tickets...

...when we have a coach people want to get behind.

 

[Five Two]

The only other one that might have a glimmer of hope might be baseball if you thought you might get some big league guys making money that would give back. But, is that even likely given how Baseball is is currently operated. We already have a couple guys in the baseball big leagues, yet I have not heard of any significant donations on that front.

I'm told that the Patriot Club hasn't contacted these guys in the MLB for years (which is a topic for a different thread). If true, I'd love to know why. Its not like these players can't be found. if they are in the NL, they are coming to play the Nats and if in the AL, they are coming to Baltimore. anyway.....

 

[Harry]

Women's volleyball uniforms are a gift from the gods, and we should all give thanks.

Wait, you were talking about the women's tushies, right?

If the women's basketball team wore uniforms like volleyball players, there might be more fans! The Australian Olympic basketball team wore form-fitting uniforms a few Olympics ago but unfortunately the unis did not catch on.

Instead women insist on dressing like men because they want to be known for their game. Got news for them, they are not playing the same game as men. So why dress like men? The newer "razor-back" tops are an improvement though...

 

[EXpatriot13]

I'm a huge baseball fan. I went to a few games during my four years at Mason and honestly didn't go to more because of how piss poor the facility is. It's just not an enjoyable experience. The field itself is in really great shape and I enjoyed the baseball aspect.

That being said, and I know it has been brought up already, I don't understand why our Athletic Department doesn't reach out to former players in all sports more often. Whether it be for donations or just exposure. Maybe we don't because we refuse to recognize our past players?

There are a few big league baseball players currently playing (watching Shawn Camp pitch against the Yankees as I type this) and a few retired players from our program. The GM of the Kansas City Royals, Dayton Moore, also played for us. I'm sure he'd write a check to help out his alma mater where it all began for him.

Maybe the school has reached out and it didn't turn into anything, but I highly doubt it. They usually don't recognize their past teams and players all that well (minus the Final Four and NCAA/NIT banners). Our baseball alumni are probably the only ones who could afford sizable donations, but other small donations from here and there from former athletes of Mason adds up.